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#1【音乐 】   请教:对一段名人名言的解析、翻译             Go Back
"Submissiveness, deepest devotion to your destiny...Oh tough struggle! --- Do everything necessary to prepare for the long journey... you are not allowed to be human, not for you, only for others, for you there is no happiness any more but in yourself, in your art --- Oh God! give me the strength to defeat myself, nothing can bind me to life. --- In this manner with A, everything goes to ruin - - -."

贝多芬的这段话很有名。最后出现的那个单独的字母"A"是一个代号,让后世贝多芬专家伤透了脑筋。这个"A"代表着什么?应该是代表着一个人物,还是一件事务?

所罗门说这个A代表着贝多芬永生的恋人安东妮(Antonie),那么全句又怎么理解呢?所罗门的反对者说这个A代表着贝多芬另外一个恋人的丈夫,也就是他的情敌。

我感觉这两种说法都不令人信服。"manner" 这个词其实很关键,作者这里指的是什么"manner"?是不是和上句("nothing can bind me to life")有联系?

想听听各位的高见?
        

#2  请教:对一段名人名言的解析、翻译             Go Back
My two cents...:) Maybe it is "Amen", which can be often used in shorthand when taking notes.



There is a scripture of Paul spoke of a response from a believer, when one wholeheartedly yielded to God's purpose and will, as "yes and Amen" (2 Cor.18-22). "Yes" means agreement out of good (revealed) knowledge; but Amen is a delighted heart with affection in praising and agreeing with God: "so be it!."


The quote is obviously a prayer of self-denial for a sacrificial life unto God and His purpose in one's life. For example, "not to be human to others" means to be a divine vessel of God's work after having denied the right unto self. "In this manner" seems can be translated as "in this way". "Everything goes to ruin" alludes to the agreement on one's part to let the self life to die.



To my impression, to treat "A' as a person seems obviously a misfit for a devout prayer like this.
        

#3  Re: 请教:对一段名人名言的解析、翻译             Go Back
Immanuel 的解读有点意思。最后那句不很清楚,贝多芬自己写的东西本来潦草,德文原文中有写字认不清,所以是后面的虚线。我有所罗门的看法为先入之见,但字面上,理解起来也的确有不通之处。
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自得其乐
        

#4  请教:对一段名人名言的解析、翻译             Go Back
Mine is just a guess...:)
        

#5  请教:对一段名人名言的解析、翻译             Go Back
谢二位回复!我们的问题是既不是专家,又不懂德文,只能试试英文。

后面是好像有什么字词漏掉了,于是以 --- 代替。

如果是“阿门”,前面是否要加一个标点?In this manner with, Amen, everything goes to ruin - - -." 是否为阿门,最好看作者是否有写“阿门”的习惯。

我想了一个: In this manner with Adversity, everything goes to ruin.

manner = nothing can bind me to life.

译成中文就是:以这种(脱离一切世俗束缚的)心态面对逆境,所有(的阻隘)都将被摧毁。
        

#6  请教:对一段名人名言的解析、翻译             Go Back
各位的讨论很有意思,拜读了。

"Submissiveness, deepest devotion to your destiny...Oh tough struggle! --- Do everything necessary to prepare for the long journey... you are not allowed to be human, not for you, only for others, for you there is no happiness any more but in yourself, in your art --- Oh God! give me the strength to defeat myself, nothing can bind me to life. --- In this manner with A, everything goes to ruin - - -."

我一般习惯阅读全文,即使只翻译片断,因为那样更能体会语境。这段短文info 有限,我个人倾向”A" 指代某人(who might that be,i have no clue)。

这段文前面是讲贝多芬内心的"tough struggle", 讲他如何祈求上帝给他力量让他献身艺术(音乐)。 破折号“---”之后,似乎语义上有所转折,“In this manner with A, everything goes to ruin”,就是说,而如果继续维持与“A" 交往的状态, 一切都会毁掉, 包括他所追求的音乐,他就无法 reach the destination of "the long journey". 所以他理智地请求上帝:“give me the strength to defeat myself”, 了结这段无望的情感。

完全是门外汉的解读和猜测,凑兴而已,各位见笑。
        

#7  请教:对一段名人名言的解析、翻译             Go Back
云天的解释听上去很有道理,是一种可能性,能让我在文章里引用吗?先谢了!
        

#8  Re: 请教:对一段名人名言的解析、翻译             Go Back
这样的理解,的确很通畅。关键是对 ‘破折号“---”之后,似乎语义上有所转折’这样语言中细微之处微妙语气的感悟,不容易。佩服。




云天 wrote: (6/10/2014 2:35)
各位的讨论很有意思,拜读了。

"Submissiveness, deepest devotion to your destiny...Oh tough struggle! --- Do everything necessary to prepare for the long journey... you are not allowed to be human, not for you, only for others, for you there is no happiness any more but in yourself, in your art --- Oh God! give me the strength to defeat myself, nothing can bind me to life. --- In this manner with A, everything goes to ruin - - -."

我一般习惯阅读全文,即使只翻译片断,因为那样更能体会语境。这段短文info 有限,我个人倾向”A" 指代某人(who might that be,i have no clue)。

这段文前面是讲贝多芬内心的"tough struggle", 讲他如何祈求上帝给他力量让他献身艺术(音乐)。 破折号“---”之后,似乎语义上有所转折,“In this manner with A, everything goes to ruin”,就是说,而如果继续维持与“A" 交往的状态, 一切都会毁掉, 包括他所追求的音乐,他就无法 reach the destination of "the long journey". 所以他理智地请求上帝:“give me the strength to defeat myself”, 了结这段无望的情感。

完全是门外汉的解读和猜测,凑兴而已,各位见笑。

--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
自得其乐
        

#9  Re: 请教:对一段名人名言的解析、翻译             Go Back
“引用”? 当然可以。不过,爱阳妙笔生花,同样的意思你写肯定会更好看,那样就无所谓引用了。这本来就是集体讨论。
爱阳写作认真用心。佩服。

谢站长谬赞。本来觉得自己插不上话的,看你们两人和Immanuel讨论得好玩,就把这段话读了好多遍。有点感悟,还要感谢你和爱阳扫盲。
        



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